2.1 Candy for all real guild but rotten egg for fake guild

[wowmeteronline]

As we know, guild history report and actor history report has been suspend for a long time due to our database issue.

Now they would be return with brand new interface and more powerful function.

But they would still cause high database cpu consuming and other issues.

And nowadays, a lot of "Pug Guild" or "Fake Guild" upload their logs to refurbish our ladder but they were always duplicated with the other "Real Guild"(we could find on armory).

So we decide:

Candy for real guild:

1.Guild history report split by boss/10or25/hardmode/timeframe/suborgs
2.Actor History report split by boss/10or25/hardmode/timeframe
3.Log keeps for two expansion(we would clear all TBC logs after CTM released)
4.All new features in the future would open to those guild

Rotten egg for fake guild:

1.No ladder any more, all the logs in those guild would not be listed on ladder
2.Log keeps for only one week(random auto-deleted after a week)
3.No new features any more
4.We would always remind you that you are in a "Fake Guild" now
5.Would not be listed on realm but could be searched

We suggest:

1.Strong recommand upload logs into "Real Guild"
2.If you are really wanna upload logs as "Pug Group" or personal purpose, please upload the log as "Personal Log"
3.You can upload "Pug Log" into your guild under your guild leader permit and marked as "Pug" suborg
4.Migrate your logs into "Real Guild" as soon as possible before we delete them

And BTW:

1.we would provide a personal link to help you share all your personal logs on forum or other
2.we would provide a migration tools to help you migrate your logs(maybe just edit guild name or something)
3.Persona logs has the same treatment as "Real Guild" logs, so please take more advantage of it.

We are planing put all this online by the mid of this month.If you have any question about it, please tell us on forum or mail.

Thank you very much!

----------------------------

If your guild could be found on Armory but be hiden by us, please provide:

1.The url of your guild on Armory
2.The url of your guild on WMO(with guild id in number)

We would fix it ASAP, thanks!

----------------------------

Feb. 24, we totally accept "Premade Team" or "Fixed Group" as a guild if you could kind tell us in this thread.

just show us the guild link on WMO as example: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/browse/gu ... 3#calendar
and comments for it to help us confirm it.

BUT, please do not try to fool us by making a fake guild have few ppls.

[gustav]

Great news! I look forward to it

[Sorronn]

The problem with your approach is that it ignores any organization that is not a "guild" per WOW's definition. For example, I belong to an organization called Leftovers. Leftovers has been around since vanilla WOW, way before WMO even existed, and on our server has tackled all game content, including the original Naxx. We don't specifically chase server firsts or world first because our mission is to make raiding accessible for the larger Silver Hand community. Leftovers is also not a PUG in that a player has to register with the organization and then must agree to the loot rules and point system common to the entire organization. A common loot rule/point system is what allows raiders to freely move from raiding "charter" to raiding "charter" thus giving the system extreme flexibility. However, most charters do have regular "core" members who would be the same people who raid with that charter week after week. Some charters have nothing but core members and never take on new players unless there is an opening and some charters regularly take on a few new people each week. We leave the choice up to each raiding charter.

That said, we do have some charters (our raiding "unit of organization" in Leftovers) that regularly follow on the heels of the raid guilds of our server and which rarely do earn server firsts. And while I respect the raid guilds for their choice of how they raid and play, I find it a loss for WMO to ignore organizations that go beyond single guilds. Leftovers has, on rare occasion, put individual players in the top 20 TPS, DPS, etc. Now those players won't be counted because we're not an "official" WOW guild. Yet at the same time, Leftovers runs lots of raids. This last week we ran 122 raids with 2102 characters and 1643 loot drops. We had 54 new raiders, of which 23 won loot on their first night. So basically you are ignoring 2000+ raiders who all abide by a common set of loot rules and common point system, just like most raid guilds, but who are not part of an official WOW "guild".

Leftovers has even been written up (twice) on WOWInsider over the years. So are we a guild? No, technically not. But we're an organization that is larger and longer lasting than almost any other raiding organization in the entire WOW universe. No other server and no other raiding organization can boast of fielding over 100 raids and 2000+ raiders week in and week out during this expansion, and whose history goes back to 2005, covering vanilla WOW and Burning Crusade as well. Yet we're not going to count. That's disappointing.

Now not all Leftovers charters use WMO for listing their log data. And some Leftovers charters simply upload their logs under the guild name of the charter leader. But some of us do list our raids as Leftover raids and believe that we should be counted as well as any other raiding guild out there.

I would hope that you would reconsider your position on raiding alliances and other such organizations and specifically about Leftovers, particularly when such organizations are established, have their own websites and have proven raiding histories.

Failing that I will simply begin listing my raids under my guild's name but that does a disservice to the real organization that helps such raids happen. It's my sincere hope that WMO can be flexible about this and support raiding organizations, whether they are at the guild level or even larger.

[Redfang]

I need to agree with Sorronn.

I'm a lead for the Leftovers organization, and as Sorronn mentioned, the sheer size and scope of Leftovers dwarfs the vast majority of "real" raiding guilds. I can understand the physical memory requirements that would prevent you from logging every single PUG run that ever happens, but I'd like to request that a special exception be made for Leftovers and other official raiding organizations that choose to operate outside of a traditional raiding guild structure. We have some very good players under our umbrella, several of whom have appeared on your lists in the top 20.

Leftovers has been around longer than most raiding guilds, is competitive with most of them, and provides an interesting counterpoint to the list of normal guilds. It is not a PUG in the traditional sense, by any means. We have a standardized points system, a standardized signup process, and a long, long list of regulars.

If we could have Leftovers registered as a "real" raiding guild for the purposes of WMO, it would be greatly appreciated.

I'd be very open to further discussion on this matter. Please shoot me an email if you'd like to discuss.

wowelk at gmail dot com

[Jaiie]

Playing devil's advocate for a second, Sorronn and Redfang, I'm sure you can understand that it is otherwise impossible for WMO to verify the existence of such organizations unless otherwise specifically told about them. From WMO's perspective, the structure you are operating in is not something that is generally visible to them. They operate under the only majorly accurate assumption in WoW logic: Guilds tend to do end game raiding content together with the rare exception of bringing in pinch-hitters from outside of the guild (where this is the exception rather than the rule).

I'm not certain what you're asking for would fall within their framework. Indeed, you both are asking for 'an exception' (which is a ruleset which currently does not follow existing rules - and thus outside current scope).

That said, I definitely applaud the effort you are going through. I am aware of something on my server's battlegroup called the SGA (Small Guild Alliance) that functionally does mostly the same thing. But, they tend to be less interested in analyzing raid stats since their raid members vary from day to day or week to week.

I wish you luck in any event.

[wowmeteronline]

I do understand what your guys' concern.

Now, we totally accept "Premade Team" or "Fixed Group" as a guild if you could kind tell us in this thread.

just show us the guild link on WMO as example: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/browse/gu ... 3#calendar
and comments for it to help us confirm it.

Hope it helpful!

[Senzoo]

Okay then I tried posting once and I am going to one more time...

Here is our raid calander for alliance and then horde the third link will be a list of charters, these are groups raiding it up at various levels.

http://leftoversraiding.org/roster/raid ... F01%2F2010

http://leftoversraiding.org/roster/raid ... F01%2F2010

http://leftoversraiding.org/roster/groups.pl

[wowmeteronline]

I am so sorry I make it misunderstanding and please forgive me for my poor english.

What I wanna get is the link of your guild on WMO now.We would set it as a "Real Guild" even we could not find it on Armory base on your requirement.

The link must looks like: http://www.wowmeteronline.com/browse/gu ... 1#calendar

Thank you so much!

[Sorronn]

Here is the link to the guild calendar at the moment.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/browse/gu ... 6#calendar

Right now only 3-4 out of our total of 64 charters use WMO. Thus far we have been labeling each charter (which is probably functionally like a "guild" in terms of people) as a sub organization when we upload reports. Current sub organizations are Assorted (covers several charters), Gonna Die, Avatars of Power, and Awake. In fact, if we can resolve this issue, I will request more of our charters use WMO to host their logs. I thank you for your attention and response to this.

Ideally, in terms of organization, Leftovers itself would simply be listed as "the guild" and each of our charters could list themselves as a sub organization within the "guild". This would allow anyone within Leftovers to browse logs for any of the charters, and thus it becomes a good tool for charter leaders to exchange information about the performance of individual raiders.

To Jaiie, I understand what you are saying but I believe that we can demonstrate, both by the existence of our own organization's website as well as the actual two articles about Leftovers on WOWInsider over the past 5 years that Leftovers is indeed a legitimate organization.

Again, to the WMO staff, thank you for your response and attention to this! It is greatly appreciated!

[wowmeteronline]

Now, Leftovers has been treated as a "Real Guild" and would never be cleaned.